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 Literatur und Poesie
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TemporarySilent Offline




Beiträge: 231

19.02.2005 13:16
#16 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dear NID

You´d better let someobody take a photograph whilst you are approaching her in the underground railroad

The perception which man and Daimon share is both opposed and continuous, and the dichotomy affects both external and internal life: The subconscious, ‘the involuntary (which is also the Daimonic life)’, is not the seat of repressed, primitive drives, but of past incarnations and the higher energies represented in the Principles, to which we can gain access in dream or reverie: ‘We meet always in the deep of the mind, whatever our work, wherever our reverie carries us, that other Will’ (Myth 337). The Daimon can never be under conscious control, since ‘It has its independent life and we cannot call it’ (YVP3 96), and the Daimonic interventions are not readily retrievable from the unconscious either, the poet’s aim is to make the processes more accessible, and Yeats’s particular aim is to understand the mechanisms through which the Daimonic power flows, to trace the mind’s moments of contact with the timeless state , in order to gain even greater control over the sources of poetry.


kotc

Temp=)

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied:"so why ask me?"
_______________________________________

NietzscheIsDead Offline




Beiträge: 119

19.02.2005 13:29
#17 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten

Dearest Temp,

A photograph of an invisible daimon? ...I´ll be doing my utmost to share this experience with you temporarily .

__________________________________________________

The Daimon is the muse of destiny, of human life, enforcing the balancing of the Tinctures. The personal response to the Daimon’s bringing of its counterpart to the place of choice is what determines fate in the present and in the future. The task which it might devise (its Creative Mind is our fate) has little real importance in itself, it is the full use of energies that matters. Neither good nor evil are of more intrinsic worth to the Daimon, and it will redress any imbalance that the human may try to create by using only the conscious or light Faculties of Will and Creative Mind:


If man seeks to live wholly in the light, the Daimon will seek to quench that light in what is to man wholly darkness, and there is conflict and Mask and Body of Fate become evil; when however in antithetical man the Daimonic mind is permitted to flow through the events of his life (the Daimonic Creative Mind) and so to animate his Creative Mind, without putting out its light, there is Unity of Being. A man becomes passionate and this passion makes the Daimonic thought luminous with its peculiar light-this is the object of the Daimon-and she so creates a very personal form of heroism or of poetry. (AV A 28)


We will identify the unity of being by revealing the mask...

kotl
NID

>>>>>y°o°u r°u°n - t°h°e°y h°i°d°e<<<<<<
__________^°^P@R@NOI@^°^}_________________

TemporarySilent Offline




Beiträge: 231

20.02.2005 00:45
#18 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dear NID,

The moon ist supposed to be in his waxing phase as far as I could see. So the current state I am in is rather melancholical. Besides from this state of mind I´m in I keep thinking of what will happen if Yeats´s mask will be unrevealed... if ever possible.

The mind of the Daimonic person willingly accepts the dictates of its individual destiny, responds to the crises forced by the Daimon, and acknowledges the Daimon’s Will as its Mask. But at first glance the complete Harmony between the physical body, intellect and spiritual desire all may be imperfect. Is there any poetic solution to overcome this imperfectness?



warm regards

Temp=)



¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied:"so why ask me?"
_______________________________________

NietzscheIsDead Offline




Beiträge: 119

21.02.2005 10:15
#19 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dearest Temp

Oh, dear, I do understand by any means how much you are suffering. I can literally feel your words crying across the ocean. Sometimes I´d like to break through and hold you endlessly - like a little child, drying your tears away and walking happily on binary pathways towards utopia.

The ‘complete Harmony all may be imperfect but if harmony is perfect it is unity’ and can only be achieved with the Daimonic influx, which summons to the challenge and is specifically designed to rouse man’s faculties to their height. While this has an obvious application to the heroic, the poet also most fully satisfies the Daimon because those ‘who are poets have for [their] end that unity of self, that is to say to enrich every emotion by every other.’ The poet unifies and relates all the emotions, and thus can offer to the Daimon exactly that which it lacks.

If the human is taken as Will and Creative Mind, mirrored by the Daimon’s complementary Will and Creative Mind, ‘though these appear to man as the object of desire, or beauty, and as fate in all its forms’ (AV A 28), the human factor is composed of one Tincture and the Daimon of the other. Therefore, ‘When man is in his most antithetical phases the Daimon is most primary; man pursues, loves, or hates, or both loves and hates’, whereas primary man faces a Daimon which pursues like the demons of St. Antony, since ‘in man’s most primary phases the Daimon is at her most antithetical. Man is now pursued with hatred, or with love ; must receive an alien terror or joy; and it is to this final acceptance of the Image that we apply the phrases ‘Unity with God,’ ‘Unity with Nature’’ (AV A 29). Yeats puts this external Unity in opposition to antithetical Unity of Being, which he sees as the more essentially interesting and human form of Unity.

in constant sorrow

NID


>>>>>y°o°u r°u°n - t°h°e°y h°i°d°e<<<<<<
__________^°^P@R@NOI@^°^}_________________

TemporarySilent Offline




Beiträge: 231

21.02.2005 10:45
#20 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten



Dear NID
I had to admit feeling a lot better whilst being the mayor target of your comforting efforts; those I do appreciate a lot. The honesty´s too much to hide away and I feel a little more stable cause our words are reinforcing ultimate support : So, let´s head for utopia .I am convinced our pathways aren´t lead by confusion "boats"...


The divine principle, as perceived in the ‘13th cone is the only thing that is entirely objective’ and alien to ‘the antithetical human race. We are who we are because of the assertion of our subjectivity.’ Yeats is loth to submerge his selfhood in the unity of the external and, though this is perhaps less true for those in whose Phase the Solar predominates, Yeats seeks to convert all mankind to the antithetical, and to raise the relevance of the Daimon over that of the divine. The divine exists for Yeats but it is curiously contingent in its relationship to man.


kotc

Temp =)


¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied:"so why ask me?"
_______________________________________

NietzscheIsDead Offline




Beiträge: 119

21.02.2005 13:25
#21 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


My dearest Temp,

Glad to know you are recovering slowly (esp mutiny from stern to bow).

^°°°°^^Hey lady,do you realize the above? ^°°°°^^

So I decided walking with you down the banks to the river asking a kindred naupliosian ferry man to ferry us over. I am amazed to watch that polar light picture (on a mere confusing pathway?)Lo and behold,when dawn is creeping in and we all be looking forward to watch the rise of the moon in all its beauty


°°°°^^^But nowadays even our moon is hidden by some snow ghosts ^^^°°°°

It is the Daimon, of the divine sphere rather than the divine itself, which is the immediate and vital force in life. Only ‘good, unlearned books say that He who keeps the distant stars within His fold comes without intermediary, but Plutarch’s precepts and the experience of the old women in Soho’ (Myth 335) know that man needs the Daimon.
From another point of view, the primary divine is the perception of the Daimons’ ultimate unity, while the antithetical divine shows their multiplicity: ‘In the Antithetical Cone we mirror with increasing perfection as it broadens out our Daimon which contains all other Daimons within itself. In the primary cone we mirror with increasing perfection as it broadens not the many in the one, but the one in the many’. The Daimons are the multitudinous aspect of the One, or in more traditional terms they are the names of God, or His angels.

kotl
NID


>>>>>y°o°u r°u°n - t°h°e°y h°i°d°e<<<<<<
__________^°^P@R@NOI@^°^}_________________

TemporarySilent Offline




Beiträge: 231

21.02.2005 19:09
#22 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten



Dear NID


In Antwort auf:
^°°°°^^Hey lady,do you realize the above? ^°°°°^^


Yes, it is a dead Nietzsche lying in his bed whilst the moon is shining in everlasting beauty
Bet you were overtried since finishing your last project . Even though there´s some mutiny we should´nt rely on confusion boats -
but the sea is wild and I cannot swim over , neither have I wings to fly" (Carrickfergus).I admire this marvellous painting of LOY :-)


So I will talk to you later,

best wishes

Temp=)


¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied:"so why ask me?"
_______________________________________

NietzscheIsDead Offline




Beiträge: 119

22.02.2005 21:57
#23 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dearest Temp


You got me wrong. It isn´t me but one of my daimons I sent to sleep
But this picture taken in Cork is overwhelming. All those little sunrays
forming masks to hide the sun in all his beauty.
Still longing to visit Ireland again....

kotl

NID

_____________________________________________

"Is not all life the struggle of experience, naked, unarmed, timid but immortal, against generalised thought?" (W.B.Yeats)

TemporarySilent Offline




Beiträge: 231

27.02.2005 23:13
#24 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Maud Gonne was the inspiration for most of Yeats most wonderfully crafted love poems. Through Yeats’ poetry we can see continuity, whereby his subject never changes, he never falls out of love with Maud Gonne so to speak, rather his attitude towards both her and love itself changes, he seems to give up on ever having her for his own and we can see this change in the way he expresses his love.Initially, Yeats uses imaginative expressions and wonderfully creative images in his poems to Maud. In ‘He Wishes For The Cloths Of Heaven’ Yeats attempts to woo Maud .

‘Had I the heaven’s embroidered cloths

Enwrought with gold and silver light

The blue and the dim and the dark

Of night and light and half light

I would spread the under your feet

But I, being poor have only my dreams

Tread softly because you tread on my dreams’


‘He Wishes For The Cloths Of Heaven’ was published in ‘The Wind Among The Reeds’ in 1899.

warm regards

Temp=)

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied:"so why ask me?"
_______________________________________

NietzscheIsDead Offline




Beiträge: 119

27.02.2005 23:52
#25 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dearest Temp
In 1923, Yeats was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature.
Esp this lyrics do ring a bell - when I was younger and didn´t find a way of how to handle love, passion and devotion.But though those days of innocence have vanished into the air Yeats will still strike a certain note anytime I read him :
However, by 1904, when ‘In The Seven Woods’ was publishes Yeats attitude had all but given up on his dream of making Maud love him. We can see Yeats’ change of heart in ‘Never Give All The Heart’ The last two lines dramatically illustrate this:

‘He that made this knows all the cost

For he gave all his heart and lost’

We can see Yeats broken dreams and feel his heartache when we read these lines.

By 1919, Yeats seems to lament the fact that he ever loved Maud. He laments the fact that everything seems to have passed and faded. Maud is no longer the vision of loveliness she once was in the youth. The last verse of "Broken Dreams" shows us Yeats feelings:

‘The Last stroke of midnight dies.

All day in one chair

From dream to dream and rhyme to rhyme I have ranged

In rambling talk with an image of air

Vague memories, nothing but memories.’

Yeats is a inspirational poet who captured the true tragedy of unrequited love with passion, beauty and grace. We can clearly see continuity and change in Yeats’ style and verses of many of his masterpieces. When Maud Gonne was asked if she felt any guilt at never returning Yeats’ felling, she answered, " If I had returned those feeling , the world would have been deprived of his beautiful poetry"

We have to ask ourselves, which would have been the greater tragedy?

kotl

NID

_____________________________________________

"Is not all life the struggle of experience, naked, unarmed, timid but immortal, against generalised thought?" (W.B.Yeats)

TemporarySilent Offline




Beiträge: 231

04.03.2005 09:17
#26 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dear NID


Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


1920 (The 2nd Coming)




Yeats wrote The Second Coming while Europe and much of the rest of the world was trying to recover from World War I. This was surely an important factor for him in writing the poem. Yeats saw great social troubles all around him, and remarks on a world spinning out of control.

Line 2 hints at technology progressing beyond mankind's ability to control it. The problem was evident to Yeats 80 years ago, and the problem has worsened since then. Yeats shows his concern that technology has advanced to the point where mankind can do a great deal of harm with relative ease. The world had never seen destruction of the likes of World War I, and most people were shocked at the extensive loss of human life during the war.

In the time that Yeats speaks of, the rulers of the world were caught up in imperialism and expanding circles of power to the point where they would do almost anything to accomplish their goals. This leads Yeats to propose that perhaps the Second Coming (of Christ) is near at hand: Judgement Day . . . . the end of the world. Spiritus Mundi is a Medieval text for Christians, to inform them what they need to do to die in the grace of God. It is essentially "the art of dying well." Spiritus Mundi brings an image of the sphinx to Yeats' mind. Yeats sees the sphinx rising up to bring forth the end of the world. The sphinx slept in a world of nightmares for 2000 years. The nightmares were caused by the turmoils of the human race (line 20). The indignant desert birds (line 17) (a.k.a. humans who foresee the Second Coming) try to stop the sphinx (the end of the world), but their task is impossible. In the end, Yeats reveals no hope for the continued existence of mankind.

kotc
Temp=)

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied:"so why ask me?"
_______________________________________

NietzscheIsDead Offline




Beiträge: 119

04.03.2005 11:02
#27 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dearest Temp

I very much enjoyed reading your comments on `2nd coming´, but, although very much valid, I think that your views fail to explore the deeper meanings of the poem. But don´t feel ashamed cause there is always more than one interpretation to a poem.
Having read Yeats' 'A Vision', a book written by him about his views on the world and how time progresses => This poem is obviously written with these ideas in mind :

The falcon in the second line, turning and turning in the widening gyre, represents the 'gyres' or cones that Yeats refers to in his book. These govern the progression of time and the human race, and can be represented by the 28 phases of the moon. 2000 years ago was the beginning of a new cycle, Christ was born at exactly the right time to have a perfect soul , and now we reach the end of the cycle, nearing the end of the 28th phase, about to start again. Yeats imagines the rebirth of Christ as the start of the new cycle, and the revolution at hand in the rebirth of the human race. Your analysis of the poem fits in with the end of the cycle when the gyres dictate that we will behave as we do and cause what is happening in the world, i.e. - wars and destruction, and ultimately our end.

I would love you to read some of his other poetry - 'The gyres', 'Sailing to Byzantium', 'Death', 'He thinks of his past greatness when a part of the constellations of heaven'. All these poems are strongly related to the views that he describes in his book.


kotl

NID

_____________________________________________

"Is not all life the struggle of experience, naked, unarmed, timid but immortal, against generalised thought?" (W.B.Yeats)

TemporarySilent Offline




Beiträge: 231

06.03.2005 03:36
#28 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dear NID,
Still contemplating....
Collective memory, Yeat's spiritus mundi arrives to me. "In the end it doesn't even matter..."
The desert of life is vast and the sands shift under grooves in my feet. The old and lost souls wander here.


God, the sun! Isn't there a moon? Does night ever fall?
All the knowledge and memories and spirits speak in
one boisterous and sonorous voice.Night. And it could
be cut with a knife, as the saying goes. The moon?
Of no comfort. The spiritus mundi said silence. They spoke.
So I could not hear any longer. The spiritus mundi never
forgets sorrow, but always keeps fighting.But these fights
are how we determine what we accomplish, our will to battle
back.Those that fight are never seen as tainted.
While we fight, we fight over ideas, beliefs, these
intangible things that do not make us who we are
The sand is cold and seems to enter a glassy form of existence...

kotc
Temp=)

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied:"so why ask me?"
_______________________________________

NietzscheIsDead Offline




Beiträge: 119

06.03.2005 22:55
#29 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten


Dearest Temp

I´m still facing the eyes and the tender but vulnerable look of the musician.She´s looking extremely sad and yearning for some shelter from the storm.But I assure you the girl is fighting well in her prime - even though the course of life-time´s running uneven.I can literally feel her crying about a broken dream and I can feel the utter loss when the magic is vanishing - when visions start fading into mediocrity.I did copy the picture and labelled it (TS´Mourning).Any time I am looking at it this sadness is striking me with intensity - and I wish to cross the ocean holding your hand to make you understand :"It ´ll be allright".
I´m standing right next to you cause binary time knows no distance So grant me wings that I might fly...

kotl
NID


_____________________________________________

"Is not all life the struggle of experience, naked, unarmed, timid but immortal, against generalised thought?" (W.B.Yeats)

DunsScotus Offline




Beiträge: 80

07.03.2005 12:08
#30 RE:"Per amica silentia lunæ" antworten

sie erinnert mich an Albrecht Dürers 'Melancholia'. Das Glück in der Traurigkeit.


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